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Post by fro619 on Jul 21, 2008 4:34:05 GMT -5
>_>
So basically, just because you say I'm wrong, that makes it so? Pfft.
Kyuubi is not a Ninja, just that simple. It's a force of nature. Ninjas can't knock down entire forests or topple mountains. Even if they could, they wouldn't. The point of Ninjas is stealth, not "hey, look at what I can do". Sentience has nothing to do with it.
Pirates pwn Ninjas. They can tank the first hits a Ninja lands because being inebriated makes you basically immune to pain. Once they notice the Ninja there, they simply overpower them, unless they get one-shotted.
Also, the poll doesn't prove anything other than the preferences of the people here. It is in no way a definitive proof of which is superior.
Pirates > Ninjas
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Post by Zilfer Of Shadows... on Jul 21, 2008 15:13:22 GMT -5
>_> So basically, just because you say I'm wrong, that makes it so? Pfft. Kyuubi is not a Ninja, just that simple. It's a force of nature. Ninjas can't knock down entire forests or topple mountains. Even if they could, they wouldn't. The point of Ninjas is stealth, not "hey, look at what I can do". Sentience has nothing to do with it. Pirates pwn Ninjas. They can tank the first hits a Ninja lands because being inebriated makes you basically immune to pain. Once they notice the Ninja there, they simply overpower them, unless they get one-shotted. Also, the poll doesn't prove anything other than the preferences of the people here. It is in no way a definitive proof of which is superior. Pirates > Ninjas Alright alright, i'm going to have to disagree with that whole heartiedly. A ninja is trained well enough to take on a pirate EASILY in normal cercumstances sword to sword. Without any of his other tools. such as, bear claws, throwing knives, disguise. A ninja's tool is not only steath but deception as well. Steath is nothing but a matter of paitence and agility which ninjas most definately have. If the ninja is allowed all it's tools it almost no contest. Even if the pirate has a gun. For example, if a ninja was faced up against a pirate or had to kill a certain pirate he would get picked up as a pirate, and act his roll the whole time, being part of the crew until the perfect moment to off the captain arrived. Or he could wait until all the crew members where in port and off getting themselves drunk. A ninja's job wasn't ONLY assassination and spy work though. They where the elite units on the REAL battle field. As for kyuubi not being a ninja, and a force of nature. Guess what.... Ninja's use forces of nature or so NINPO goes. I'll restate that Ninja's in the past where so good the very sight of them struck fear into the hearts of men. Being thought of as demons, who could walk across water, disappear into smoke(obviously we know how they did this), jump unbelieveably high(which they practiced with corn stalks), and other amazing feats normal human beings couldn't possibly do like scale a castle wall(bear claws which where also used to stop sword slashes). A pirate could be any old smuck, and thus i think the odds are clearly in the ninja's favor. They dont have to be the idiot naruto, or the amazing fantastically powered other charactersof the serise. AS for ninja's not being able to blow up knock down forests. If they need to they would find a way=P. Of course it wouldn't lead back to them when they did it. I haven't seen anyone give an REAL advantage for a pirate over a ninja yet, and thus the poll has been toppled in the dirrection of the ninjas. And one question, did you read the whole topic before posting? lol.
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Post by fro619 on Jul 21, 2008 15:39:43 GMT -5
Alright alright, i'm going to have to disagree with that whole heartiedly. A ninja is trained well enough to take on a pirate EASILY in normal cercumstances sword to sword. Without any of his other tools. such as, bear claws, throwing knives, disguise. A ninja's tool is not only steath but deception as well. Steath is nothing but a matter of paitence and agility which ninjas most definately have. If the ninja is allowed all it's tools it almost no contest. Even if the pirate has a gun. For example, if a ninja was faced up against a pirate or had to kill a certain pirate he would get picked up as a pirate, and act his roll the whole time, being part of the crew until the perfect moment to off the captain arrived. Or he could wait until all the crew members where in port and off getting themselves drunk. A ninja's job wasn't ONLY assassination and spy work though. They where the elite units on the REAL battle field. As for kyuubi not being a ninja, and a force of nature. Guess what.... Ninja's use forces of nature or so NINPO goes. I'll restate that Ninja's in the past where so good the very sight of them struck fear into the hearts of men. Being thought of as demons, who could walk across water, disappear into smoke(obviously we know how they did this), jump unbelieveably high(which they practiced with corn stalks), and other amazing feats normal human beings couldn't possibly do like scale a castle wall(bear claws which where also used to stop sword slashes). A pirate could be any old smuck, and thus i think the odds are clearly in the ninja's favor. They dont have to be the idiot naruto, or the amazing fantastically powered other charactersof the serise. AS for ninja's not being able to blow up knock down forests. If they need to they would find a way=P. Of course it wouldn't lead back to them when they did it. I haven't seen anyone give an REAL advantage for a pirate over a ninja yet, and thus the poll has been toppled in the dirrection of the ninjas. And one question, did you read the whole topic before posting? lol. -Can I have some of what you're smoking? A ninja one on one in sword combat with a pirate gets overpowered 9 times out of 10. -Stealth has no value once the ninja is revealed. Remember, even if his target is only one pirate, once he's revealed himself he has to fight the whole crew to escape. -Ninjas were not used as Elite battlefield units. That would be what Samurai were. Ninjas were used as assassins for hire. -Are you serious contending that Kyuubi is a ninja? Wow... And do you actually have evidence that Ninpo actually works? Have you seen a real life Chidori? I think not. -Pirates struck fear into plenty of people. This point is null and void. -Uh, yeah ninjas could do all that, but they started as normal humans, so saying that normal humans couldn't do those stunts is illogical. -No, a pirate couldn't be just anybody. Captains evaluated people for their crew. If you weren't up to snuff, you were either shot or dismissed. -Yes, I read the whole topic. It was full of "OMG ninjas R t3h pwnz0rz! Pirates smell bad because they don't bathe!" and other such nonsense. None of it was logical.
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Post by Darth Nergul on Jul 21, 2008 15:55:30 GMT -5
Wait, are we talking fiction ninjas and pirates, or nonfiction?
I'm still going with ninjas, though. I might have to go and back it up soon enough...
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Post by Zilfer Of Shadows... on Jul 25, 2008 1:42:29 GMT -5
Alright alright, i'm going to have to disagree with that whole heartiedly. A ninja is trained well enough to take on a pirate EASILY in normal cercumstances sword to sword. Without any of his other tools. such as, bear claws, throwing knives, disguise. A ninja's tool is not only steath but deception as well. Steath is nothing but a matter of paitence and agility which ninjas most definately have. If the ninja is allowed all it's tools it almost no contest. Even if the pirate has a gun. For example, if a ninja was faced up against a pirate or had to kill a certain pirate he would get picked up as a pirate, and act his roll the whole time, being part of the crew until the perfect moment to off the captain arrived. Or he could wait until all the crew members where in port and off getting themselves drunk. A ninja's job wasn't ONLY assassination and spy work though. They where the elite units on the REAL battle field. As for kyuubi not being a ninja, and a force of nature. Guess what.... Ninja's use forces of nature or so NINPO goes. I'll restate that Ninja's in the past where so good the very sight of them struck fear into the hearts of men. Being thought of as demons, who could walk across water, disappear into smoke(obviously we know how they did this), jump unbelieveably high(which they practiced with corn stalks), and other amazing feats normal human beings couldn't possibly do like scale a castle wall(bear claws which where also used to stop sword slashes). A pirate could be any old smuck, and thus i think the odds are clearly in the ninja's favor. They dont have to be the idiot naruto, or the amazing fantastically powered other charactersof the serise. AS for ninja's not being able to blow up knock down forests. If they need to they would find a way=P. Of course it wouldn't lead back to them when they did it. I haven't seen anyone give an REAL advantage for a pirate over a ninja yet, and thus the poll has been toppled in the dirrection of the ninjas. And one question, did you read the whole topic before posting? lol. -Can I have some of what you're smoking? A ninja one on one in sword combat with a pirate gets overpowered 9 times out of 10. -Stealth has no value once the ninja is revealed. Remember, even if his target is only one pirate, once he's revealed himself he has to fight the whole crew to escape. -Ninjas were not used as Elite battlefield units. That would be what Samurai were. Ninjas were used as assassins for hire. -Are you serious contending that Kyuubi is a ninja? Wow... And do you actually have evidence that Ninpo actually works? Have you seen a real life Chidori? I think not. -Pirates struck fear into plenty of people. This point is null and void. -Uh, yeah ninjas could do all that, but they started as normal humans, so saying that normal humans couldn't do those stunts is illogical. -No, a pirate couldn't be just anybody. Captains evaluated people for their crew. If you weren't up to snuff, you were either shot or dismissed. -Yes, I read the whole topic. It was full of "OMG ninjas R t3h pwnz0rz! Pirates smell bad because they don't bathe!" and other such nonsense. None of it was logical. Ok first of all the samurai where LOWER in skill then Ninja. Ninja where tired of geting their farmers raviged and shit like that. A fine example of a NINJA who had great promise upon a battle field is known as HANZO HATORI. Ninja's where always more skilled, in combat, and tricks. I'll go by your little - things. -First of all, sword fighting, i'll give you the benifit of the doubt and say 5:5, because Pirates blow shit up rather then pratice their sword fightning. The ninja wouldn't even need a sword, while the pirate has a sword to win. Example. Pirate slashes. Ninja uses bear claw to stop slash and has the pirates sword now stuck. Ninja goes in for one of the man places he is trained to give a quick and one hit kill. Unarmed, or with a special tool. With a sword a ninja has even more chance. -Ok, A ninja has stealth, even if he is revealed it does not mean he can't make a quick get away, or set up an ambush while waiting for the rest. and you are COMPLETELY assuming that this is on the pirate's turf, with a home field advantage. Also note, the most likely senerio of a ninja attacking a pirate would be as a crew member, making them comit mutany/kill the pirate while he is alone or the moment presents itself. As their ONE OF THEIR JOBS(not their only jobs), assassination, he wouldn't leave a chance for the crew to get in the way, leaving a way for him to escape. - ok I sort of started with this one. Ninja's jobs, the PRIMARY jobs, mind you. Was to kill the ninja of opposing armies, that their dynimo where fighting. That was their primary role, and they would often show up on the battle field. The thing back then is they had a ninja up their sleeve, an elite person trained in the art of killing with almost anything you can imagine, so you can deploy them against the enemy whether it be needed in battle, assassination, And/or taking out another lord's ninja so they wouldn't assassinate them. The ranking order of the system would be as such while being plain as possible and leaving out some factions such as gunners, and archers. Peasants(bantha fodder)<Samurai(normal warriors that made up most of the army<Ninja's (elite unit's you where lucky to have, and if you didn't you'd better hope not to wake up with a knife through your throat.) - Ok the kyuubi thing, now this is NOT reality where the kyuubi exists, so YES in that reality i've seen NINPO exist. If your talking about the REAL world then why would you even consider the kyuubi to be ninja when it does not exist? On the fact that it does exist, the kyuubi being or using, a force of nature, and the ninja using the forces of nature, i would have to incline that Yes the kyuubi could be a ninja. His task, and the task and bottom line of all ninja is the same. Breed to kill. To your chidori comment... have you seen a real kyuubi? No, then what the hell are you arguing about! - Yes pirates struck fear into the hearts of people yes. Ok, you have a point, however i'm not sure they all struck fear into the hearts of trained soldiers, and opposing lords. But yes you are right this has little baring on the convesation/arguement. - I showed you all those examples as to why people feared ninja's basically as devils. Especially the samurai. Fear in battle can get you killed easily. I was just showing you some feats that Ninja's where known for, while i dont see pirates doing any similar feats. While the pirates (depending upon whether these are japanese pirates or not because they have pirates too) may or may not be frightened, they might scratch their heads at some of the stuff a ninja would pull off. - I wasn't saying that anyone could be a pirate, However i was saying that a Ninja could be anyone. Form a pirate to the old man cutting his lawn with a set of trimmers. You never knew who was a ninja and who wasn't. Some ninja's went to extreme lenghts to kill their target, as predending to be someone they were not for years before safely killing their target. (some didn't have to pretend, they just continued their daily lives, and just didn't show any signs of being a ninja.) - Sorry, i didn't mean to be rude with did you read the topic, yes their was some illogical stuff, but there was also fact mixed in with those posts. I think i see in you the common sterotype that almost everyone has about ninjas. oh they wear black and come in the night! (far from their true role sadly.) I will conseed i probably have a sterotype on piates as well for i picture them as uneducated, flithy, greedy, and drunk. =p (i dont think the ninja would have a hard time personally assuming it's not a captain which he might have a little more trouble.) As a few side notes i'd like to add, i'm not trying to be an ass, and say you are wrong, i'm just telling you what i Know of ninja's having done. And obviously your oppinion may or may not change, most likely it wont, but it's fun discussing this with you. ^.^ Final note! I thought you might want to know a fun fact. Ninja, who where originally farmers who kept getting harassed by the samurai, turned around and invited a style called NINJUTSU i'm sure you may have heard of it, that eventually be became essiental to warfare in japan, in order to win. (why ninja's where needed) and then eventually began to be implimented into the samurai's trainning. (aka your so called elite unit the samurai, got bette because of ninja's. ^.^) [/endfunfact] Sorry for the long post.
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Post by bruinfamer on Jul 25, 2008 13:56:26 GMT -5
Ninjas=*******. Put a Ninja up vs a commando, now a commando would win. But I said Ninja for this one :->
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Post by fro619 on Jul 25, 2008 15:34:42 GMT -5
Ok first of all the samurai where LOWER in skill then Ninja. Ninja where tired of geting their farmers raviged and shit like that. A fine example of a NINJA who had great promise upon a battle field is known as HANZO HATORI. Ninja's where always more skilled, in combat, and tricks. I'll go by your little - things. -First of all, sword fighting, i'll give you the benifit of the doubt and say 5:5, because Pirates blow shit up rather then pratice their sword fightning. The ninja wouldn't even need a sword, while the pirate has a sword to win. Example. Pirate slashes. Ninja uses bear claw to stop slash and has the pirates sword now stuck. Ninja goes in for one of the man places he is trained to give a quick and one hit kill. Unarmed, or with a special tool. With a sword a ninja has even more chance. -Ok, A ninja has stealth, even if he is revealed it does not mean he can't make a quick get away, or set up an ambush while waiting for the rest. and you are COMPLETELY assuming that this is on the pirate's turf, with a home field advantage. Also note, the most likely senerio of a ninja attacking a pirate would be as a crew member, making them comit mutany/kill the pirate while he is alone or the moment presents itself. As their ONE OF THEIR JOBS(not their only jobs), assassination, he wouldn't leave a chance for the crew to get in the way, leaving a way for him to escape. - ok I sort of started with this one. Ninja's jobs, the PRIMARY jobs, mind you. Was to kill the ninja of opposing armies, that their dynimo where fighting. That was their primary role, and they would often show up on the battle field. The thing back then is they had a ninja up their sleeve, an elite person trained in the art of killing with almost anything you can imagine, so you can deploy them against the enemy whether it be needed in battle, assassination, And/or taking out another lord's ninja so they wouldn't assassinate them. The ranking order of the system would be as such while being plain as possible and leaving out some factions such as gunners, and archers. Peasants(bantha fodder)<Samurai(normal warriors that made up most of the army<Ninja's (elite unit's you where lucky to have, and if you didn't you'd better hope not to wake up with a knife through your throat.) - Ok the kyuubi thing, now this is NOT reality where the kyuubi exists, so YES in that reality i've seen NINPO exist. If your talking about the REAL world then why would you even consider the kyuubi to be ninja when it does not exist? On the fact that it does exist, the kyuubi being or using, a force of nature, and the ninja using the forces of nature, i would have to incline that Yes the kyuubi could be a ninja. His task, and the task and bottom line of all ninja is the same. Breed to kill. To your chidori comment... have you seen a real kyuubi? No, then what the hell are you arguing about! - Yes pirates struck fear into the hearts of people yes. Ok, you have a point, however i'm not sure they all struck fear into the hearts of trained soldiers, and opposing lords. But yes you are right this has little baring on the convesation/arguement. - I showed you all those examples as to why people feared ninja's basically as devils. Especially the samurai. Fear in battle can get you killed easily. I was just showing you some feats that Ninja's where known for, while i dont see pirates doing any similar feats. While the pirates (depending upon whether these are japanese pirates or not because they have pirates too) may or may not be frightened, they might scratch their heads at some of the stuff a ninja would pull off. - I wasn't saying that anyone could be a pirate, However i was saying that a Ninja could be anyone. Form a pirate to the old man cutting his lawn with a set of trimmers. You never knew who was a ninja and who wasn't. Some ninja's went to extreme lenghts to kill their target, as predending to be someone they were not for years before safely killing their target. (some didn't have to pretend, they just continued their daily lives, and just didn't show any signs of being a ninja.) - Sorry, i didn't mean to be rude with did you read the topic, yes their was some illogical stuff, but there was also fact mixed in with those posts. I think i see in you the common sterotype that almost everyone has about ninjas. oh they wear black and come in the night! (far from their true role sadly.) I will conseed i probably have a sterotype on piates as well for i picture them as uneducated, flithy, greedy, and drunk. =p (i dont think the ninja would have a hard time personally assuming it's not a captain which he might have a little more trouble.) As a few side notes i'd like to add, i'm not trying to be an ass, and say you are wrong, i'm just telling you what i Know of ninja's having done. And obviously your oppinion may or may not change, most likely it wont, but it's fun discussing this with you. ^.^ Final note! I thought you might want to know a fun fact. Ninja, who where originally farmers who kept getting harassed by the samurai, turned around and invited a style called NINJUTSU i'm sure you may have heard of it, that eventually be became essiental to warfare in japan, in order to win. (why ninja's where needed) and then eventually began to be implimented into the samurai's trainning. (aka your so called elite unit the samurai, got bette because of ninja's. ^.^) [/endfunfact] Sorry for the long post. -Again, what are you smoking? Samurai were NOT lower in skill than Ninjas. They just specialized in different kinds of skills. -Your example of a Pirate vs. Ninja is NOT a good example, as you're obviously just using it as a way to say "Oh, Ninjas win anyway!" In a real fight, sure, your example might happen, but don't try to say that it would always be the outcome. -Wrong. Ninjas, as assassins, would HAVE to be on a Pirate's turf to get their kill. Then, even if they have the skill for a quick getaway, they still are surrounded by a whole crew of angry Pirates. Plus, what would be a Ninja's turf? A dojo? -What you described as Ninja's primary job is EXACTLY what I said it was: assassination. However, you're wrong about Samurai. They were NOBLES who swore fealty to the Emperor to gain land and soldiers under them. They were not the regular troops, and were considered Elites in combat. - Oh lord -_- Are you being asinine on purpose? 1. Stop mixing fictional and nonfictional ninjas together. If you're going to argue for one, don't bring in another. Kyuubi =/= a ninja, and the universe in which it exists =/= real ninjas. You either need to stick to reality, or we can argue about fictional characters. 2. Ninjas do NOT use forces of nature. Have you heard of a ninja causing an earthquake, or stirring a hurricane? No? Thought not. 3. The Chidori comment was not an argument, it was more to show you how ludicrous it was to pull evidence from fictional Ninja to support your claims. -Don't act like Ninjas were the only ones capable of impossible feats. Pirates were known for their sheer insanity in battle, and insane people can do insane things -Pirates were known to chase their target enemies across the ocean for months on end, slaughtering anyone who got in their way... is that extreme enough for you? ->_> 1. Ninjutsu wasn't invented solely by farmers. Sure, a variant was invented, but not the main branch 2. Samurai WERE elite military units, so don't say "So-called". 3. Ninjutsu probably did help them out in training and battle, but I doubt that they used it to a large extent.
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Post by Darth Nergul on Jul 25, 2008 16:46:41 GMT -5
I'm quite sure you're wrong on samurai there. Daimyos were the feudal lords, not samurai. Although my memory is vague on whether or not samurai owned lots of land, I'm pretty sure they didn't. However, you are correct on samurai being elites. Ashigaru were footsoldiers, yet I'm still sure they did not earn soldiers under their command.
Also, if the ninja can kill the pirate mark, than his job is pretty much done in my book. It doesn't matter to me whether or not he lives. Also, he could also kill a pirate who is at a dock. Maybe the ninja could kill him in a bar and cause a bar fight. Better yet, he could just cause a bar fight and hope that his mark is killed by it.
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Post by fro619 on Jul 25, 2008 17:11:58 GMT -5
This isn't a question of which does their job better. If that were the case, Pirates would stand no chance, as they have no jobs.
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Post by Darth Nergul on Jul 25, 2008 17:15:18 GMT -5
What the heck is the competition then?
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Post by fro619 on Jul 25, 2008 18:02:05 GMT -5
It's which one actually IS better
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Post by Darth Nergul on Jul 25, 2008 19:03:53 GMT -5
But better in which ways? And what type of situation is this? I don't think anything realistic could make the odds even. And is it a one on one fight? Just better?
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Post by fro619 on Jul 26, 2008 12:59:46 GMT -5
Well, the poll asks which one would win, but there really aren't any specifications beyond that.
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Post by Darth Nergul on Jul 26, 2008 16:01:36 GMT -5
And that is the problem with this argument. I would argue about why I like ninjas more, but since I don't know what instruments to use, and if this is a one on one fight, then I cannot say anything. I consider myself out of this topic.
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Post by Zilfer Of Shadows... on Jul 27, 2008 23:19:51 GMT -5
Ok first of all the samurai where LOWER in skill then Ninja. Ninja where tired of geting their farmers raviged and shit like that. A fine example of a NINJA who had great promise upon a battle field is known as HANZO HATORI. Ninja's where always more skilled, in combat, and tricks. I'll go by your little - things. -First of all, sword fighting, i'll give you the benifit of the doubt and say 5:5, because Pirates blow shit up rather then pratice their sword fightning. The ninja wouldn't even need a sword, while the pirate has a sword to win. Example. Pirate slashes. Ninja uses bear claw to stop slash and has the pirates sword now stuck. Ninja goes in for one of the man places he is trained to give a quick and one hit kill. Unarmed, or with a special tool. With a sword a ninja has even more chance. -Ok, A ninja has stealth, even if he is revealed it does not mean he can't make a quick get away, or set up an ambush while waiting for the rest. and you are COMPLETELY assuming that this is on the pirate's turf, with a home field advantage. Also note, the most likely senerio of a ninja attacking a pirate would be as a crew member, making them comit mutany/kill the pirate while he is alone or the moment presents itself. As their ONE OF THEIR JOBS(not their only jobs), assassination, he wouldn't leave a chance for the crew to get in the way, leaving a way for him to escape. - ok I sort of started with this one. Ninja's jobs, the PRIMARY jobs, mind you. Was to kill the ninja of opposing armies, that their dynimo where fighting. That was their primary role, and they would often show up on the battle field. The thing back then is they had a ninja up their sleeve, an elite person trained in the art of killing with almost anything you can imagine, so you can deploy them against the enemy whether it be needed in battle, assassination, And/or taking out another lord's ninja so they wouldn't assassinate them. The ranking order of the system would be as such while being plain as possible and leaving out some factions such as gunners, and archers. Peasants(bantha fodder)<Samurai(normal warriors that made up most of the army<Ninja's (elite unit's you where lucky to have, and if you didn't you'd better hope not to wake up with a knife through your throat.) - Ok the kyuubi thing, now this is NOT reality where the kyuubi exists, so YES in that reality i've seen NINPO exist. If your talking about the REAL world then why would you even consider the kyuubi to be ninja when it does not exist? On the fact that it does exist, the kyuubi being or using, a force of nature, and the ninja using the forces of nature, i would have to incline that Yes the kyuubi could be a ninja. His task, and the task and bottom line of all ninja is the same. Breed to kill. To your chidori comment... have you seen a real kyuubi? No, then what the hell are you arguing about! - Yes pirates struck fear into the hearts of people yes. Ok, you have a point, however i'm not sure they all struck fear into the hearts of trained soldiers, and opposing lords. But yes you are right this has little baring on the convesation/arguement. - I showed you all those examples as to why people feared ninja's basically as devils. Especially the samurai. Fear in battle can get you killed easily. I was just showing you some feats that Ninja's where known for, while i dont see pirates doing any similar feats. While the pirates (depending upon whether these are japanese pirates or not because they have pirates too) may or may not be frightened, they might scratch their heads at some of the stuff a ninja would pull off. - I wasn't saying that anyone could be a pirate, However i was saying that a Ninja could be anyone. Form a pirate to the old man cutting his lawn with a set of trimmers. You never knew who was a ninja and who wasn't. Some ninja's went to extreme lenghts to kill their target, as predending to be someone they were not for years before safely killing their target. (some didn't have to pretend, they just continued their daily lives, and just didn't show any signs of being a ninja.) - Sorry, i didn't mean to be rude with did you read the topic, yes their was some illogical stuff, but there was also fact mixed in with those posts. I think i see in you the common sterotype that almost everyone has about ninjas. oh they wear black and come in the night! (far from their true role sadly.) I will conseed i probably have a sterotype on piates as well for i picture them as uneducated, flithy, greedy, and drunk. =p (i dont think the ninja would have a hard time personally assuming it's not a captain which he might have a little more trouble.) As a few side notes i'd like to add, i'm not trying to be an ass, and say you are wrong, i'm just telling you what i Know of ninja's having done. And obviously your oppinion may or may not change, most likely it wont, but it's fun discussing this with you. ^.^ Final note! I thought you might want to know a fun fact. Ninja, who where originally farmers who kept getting harassed by the samurai, turned around and invited a style called NINJUTSU i'm sure you may have heard of it, that eventually be became essiental to warfare in japan, in order to win. (why ninja's where needed) and then eventually began to be implimented into the samurai's trainning. (aka your so called elite unit the samurai, got bette because of ninja's. ^.^) [/endfunfact] Sorry for the long post. -Again, what are you smoking? Samurai were NOT lower in skill than Ninjas. They just specialized in different kinds of skills. -Your example of a Pirate vs. Ninja is NOT a good example, as you're obviously just using it as a way to say "Oh, Ninjas win anyway!" In a real fight, sure, your example might happen, but don't try to say that it would always be the outcome. -Wrong. Ninjas, as assassins, would HAVE to be on a Pirate's turf to get their kill. Then, even if they have the skill for a quick getaway, they still are surrounded by a whole crew of angry Pirates. Plus, what would be a Ninja's turf? A dojo? -What you described as Ninja's primary job is EXACTLY what I said it was: assassination. However, you're wrong about Samurai. They were NOBLES who swore fealty to the Emperor to gain land and soldiers under them. They were not the regular troops, and were considered Elites in combat. - Oh lord -_- Are you being asinine on purpose? 1. Stop mixing fictional and nonfictional ninjas together. If you're going to argue for one, don't bring in another. Kyuubi =/= a ninja, and the universe in which it exists =/= real ninjas. You either need to stick to reality, or we can argue about fictional characters. 2. Ninjas do NOT use forces of nature. Have you heard of a ninja causing an earthquake, or stirring a hurricane? No? Thought not. 3. The Chidori comment was not an argument, it was more to show you how ludicrous it was to pull evidence from fictional Ninja to support your claims. -Don't act like Ninjas were the only ones capable of impossible feats. Pirates were known for their sheer insanity in battle, and insane people can do insane things -Pirates were known to chase their target enemies across the ocean for months on end, slaughtering anyone who got in their way... is that extreme enough for you? ->_> 1. Ninjutsu wasn't invented solely by farmers. Sure, a variant was invented, but not the main branch 2. Samurai WERE elite military units, so don't say "So-called". 3. Ninjutsu probably did help them out in training and battle, but I doubt that they used it to a large extent. -Lol, look up Ninja's man, They are better then samurai, My japanese teacher even knows this and she's from freakin japan man! I dont know what YOUR smokin =P. The S - It is just an example of what COULD happen. <.< in a fight any number of things could happen, i'm just saying a Ninja was made to kill in Single combat, multiple foe combat, and with almost nothing. <.< hell if this was on the ninjas teritory the pirates flat dead. Walk into a Ninja's house and you will not find him until you are dead. -A ninja's turf could be their house among many ninja villages such as Fuma, or the most popular place for ninjas and where hanzo hatori i believe was trained in Iga. Which where ALL farmers, and they came up with the tactics on their own. -If they have the skill for a quick get away, it's not that hard to jump over a ship, and then the whole mob is behind you. Now your assuming that the crew is on them the second he kills the captain. Question, why would a ninja kill him in plain sight of the crew if he was going to stick around for the crew to get him. A ninja being an assassin has nothing to do with the turf, if it was Ninja vs Pirate and we are assuming that the pirate new the challenge, then who's to say the pirate wouldn't take a gang of his buddies to raid the ninja's town and house. (though that again would be a bad idea) Here's 3 things a smart person would do. 1. Kill him alone on the deck throw him over board if possible or just break for it. 2. Kill him privately in his quarters, if part of the crew for a good while he would ask to speak privately and when he goes through the doors towards his desk while his back is turned slice, or stab with a posion dart, throw a smoke pelet down at the floor to disorent him, take him out with a forward thrust of his sword or if need be use an explosive just to blow the freakin ship up, all when he goes into his cabin. If possible he could snipe him through an open window or if part of the crew again and the look out blow dart takes him out. >.> 3. The final thing he could do was rush the captain suddenly when he's crowded impaling him out of surprize, the crew shocked, wouldn't react fast enough for the ninja to jump off the side, they'd watch the captain clutch his side most likely or fall to the ground first before acting, like any person would. - Yes, SOME samurai where nobles, but most where not. Look at hideyoshi toyotomi who was a samurai under Nobunaga oda, and became the main leader of japan for many years. He wasn't a noble he was a PEASANT. You are wrong about all samurai being nobles, peasants who became samurai gained honor and the rank of noblity. During the wars with nobunaga samurai where deployed against one another, if they all served the emperor why would there be fighting? They plegdge their services to the dainimo's(sp i know) who was trying to concuer japan. - I'm not mixing up Fictional and non fictional stuff, you brought in luffy and Naruto, so THUS we where talking about Fictional anime stuff. Now your VERY NEXT POST. you where talking about the kyuubi and naruto not being ninjas. >.> They are ninja's in the anime, and thus they are ninja's in FICTION which i was still talking about until you brought in the fact that Ninja's dont use forces of nature. I said they used ninpo, which uses the forces of nature in ANIME and VIDEO games. Thus i was still talking about fiction. Then you bring in that i have not seen a CHIDORI in real life and kyuubi wasn't Ninja. >.> YOUR the one who brought real life into the situatin, and i was trying to clear that up by saying, if your doing to ask something as rediculous as if i had seen a chidori, then i would ask have you seen a nine tails. Obviously we both haven't thus making your case about seeing a Chidori in real life void, since we would both be aruging about something that didn't exist in our world. The point was that naruto character's are ninja's in their world, and luffy is in his. Come on, luffy? a real pirate? he makes friends to easily, and i've so far yet to see him steal a plunder of gold, or rob another ship, and he helps out everyone he finds it seems. WDH? If luffy's a pirate, naruto is definately a damn ninja. - Ok.... are you reading what i'm saying? I said PIRATES STRUCK FEAR INTO THE HEARTS OF MEN AS WELL. (READ THE CAPS OK?) lol, seriously your still aruging when i AGREED with you. - So your saying a pirate acted as any normal person would do..... if someone had pissed them off..... <.< Go charging in smashing anything that got in the way, of their goal.... sounds a bit like life to me. XD It doesn't seem that extreme when almost every group has done that at one point or another. - Ninjutsu became essientail(sp i know again) meaning that they HAD to use that tactics of ninja's in order to win a battle. <.< i'm not joking around there. The main point i'm trying to make here is Ninja's did all the dirty work. They where there to do ANY job, that the samurai didn't want to do or thought dishonorable. And there's a reason these men and women became known as "Non-humans" in japanese. They helpped the samurai become deadlier, they helpped the the tactic's of the battle feild, they fought next to the samurai, they killed enemy lords, enemy units, and enemy samurai. The ninja's where master of their collective arts which numbers to 18 things. Anyways, gambling the pirate would win I can tell ya that! lol. if you present different things like that then i would agree. Even though we are aruging this the reason i voted is becuase a 1 on 1 match i believe the ninja would win, 8 times out of 10. If your are going to aruge that a pirate could cap a ninja's ass right off, I'd like to inform you ninja's used whatever tools to get a job done including guns. XD
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